Hello.

My corporation is an environmnetal testing laboratory. As such we provide a service and do not sell products. We currently invoice out of main laboratory system and simply upload the invoice files to accounts receivable. However, I have become increasingly frustrated with the billing system in our LIMS.

I poked around with the invoicing module in Adagio and have not become convinced that it would work any better yet. The problem I cannot seem to wrap my head around is how would I get the pricing into the invoice module with the complexity that I need to make it smooth. We do have "test codes" (analysis of a sample) that I suppose I could set as inventory to allow me to develop a price list. However, we do not use a single price list. Each customer has a custom made price list and often more then one depending on a project.

I believe I can get my LIMS system to upload the how many of each test code with the customer number to initiate the invoice. It seems like the invoice module is geared towards selling a product via inventory and ordering etc.

I would be grateful for any feedback on this issue.

Have a look at Order Entry (which will also produce an invoice. It would allow you to set up common item numbers and then create alternative price lists.

So for example test A (item A) could then have an alternative price for every customer (though I'd recommend trying to avoid this as its a lot of work to maintain). You could then assign customers to an alternative price list so that when you bill them their price is used for item A. If price is project based then use the project to identify the alternative price list and have the correct project (alternative price list) selected during invoicing.

Hi Jim,

Adagio has 2 invoicing options. Invoicing as a module could be used for service invoices and catalog items, with complete flexibility for layout content.

Order Entry is the other, more traditional invoicing option, where you can invoice directly or after entering a sales order. The formatting of the invoice is quite flexible but all items would be reported in the same manner on a customer invoice. And for service organizations such yours, you can use Adagio Order Entry, with or without Inventory, as Items can be a catalog price list.

And for your pricing you can create customer price lists, or multiple pricelists for customer projects under the alternate pricelist feature. Or you can import from your existing price lists (if you can export out) into Adagio price lists, fairly easily. It's one the strongest features especially when converting from another system.

Contact me if you need more any information.

Regards,
Brian

Hi Jim

While I agree with everything that Brian and Doug write, I want to add my advice. As mentioned, the key to getting multiple price lists is to use the Inventory module Alternate Price List feature.

Based on your needs, I would suggest that Invoices is a better fit for you than OrderEntry. Invoices allows you to print, revise and reprint invoices without having to post the invoice first, a major advantage over OE. It also allows you to store "pre-invoices" in an archive function, so you can segregate tentative invoices and final ones. Invoices has much more flexibility in the way your invoice can be designed.

If you are interested, email me at steve@sschwartzcpa.com and I will send you a much more detailed document I have written on the difference between Invoices and OrderEntry.

Steve Schwartz

Hello Jim,

Without knowing whether your frustration with your current LMS is directed at its pricing or invoicing, it's difficult to recommend an option. Since OrderEntry is designed mainly for companies that sell "things" and Invoices is designed for companies that sell "services", I'd lean towards Invoices as a better solution.

Your investigation made you feel that you would be any further ahead using Invoices. Perhaps if you could describe the problem you were trying to solve a little more specifically, we might be able to point you towards a better solution.

The principle issue is with pricing.

The generation of the invoices, storage, templates, etc. is not an issue. My current LIMS system struggles with the complexity of the varying price structure (or lack thereof) marketing has slammed at accounting. The pricing varies from customer to customer (without consistant price discounts) and even from project to project with the same customer.

And while we don't sell a project we do sell an analysis in which we have defined test codes for each analysis. That was why I was considering the inventory via price lists first. I know I can import the analysis code, volume, customer number, and also an item called profile number which distinguishes the specific project within the customer for pricing identification.

Would the regular invoicing module be better? I don't know. Would that module retain some time of multiple tier pricing by customer and project?

I did download the evaluation module for order entry but I cannot seem to set up price lists. I suspect I need inventory to do so.

To be continued.. (and thanks for the feedback)

Jim,

Is there some actual system to the pricing, or is it just ad-hoc with each separate job.quote? If the latter, nothing will work except entering each price on each invoice, not matter what software you use.

If you can see a system to the pricing, you could do something like the following in Invoices: use the six-character item code to designate the job and analysis. For example all of one type of analysis could start with ABC. Each job could be numbered 001, 002 etc. So ABC001 would be the price for ABC work on job 001. You would add additional items as needed.

Thanks Ralph. That is an interesting way to approach it, but I am still leaning towards the price list approach.

Yes, my pricing is very much ad hoc. Yes, it does vary from customer to customer and from project to project within that customer. However, while that creates is own problems in itself, I think if I can create mini price lists with the any missing items defaulting to "list price" (as if we really have one), that it may work.

My current system has been trying its hardest to hold onto the pricing from a quote in the system. And while most of the time, the pricing is static, often that pricing does not pull through to the invoice for way too many reasons. For one, too many employees can manipulate the quote and profile for items like turn around time etc and any change seems to mess it up in some factor or another. Another item is that if the water or soil sample is not logged into the sytem in a precise manner it will void the quoted price. Currently, we check each and every invoice by hand against hard copies of quotes. I was hopeful to move the invoicing to a third party system which as least will lock out others (except for accounting) to start and have that invoicing system not be affected by the login process.

Sadly, these issues are inherent flaws in the billing/pricing section of otherwise a very good sample tracking LIMS system. It was just not set up well for billing.


For example:
Customer Number: SK7535
Profile Number: 129769 (always a 6 digit and a profile is created from a quote)
Line Item Analysis: 601051PB (Total Lead Testing with a quoted price of $10 for that customer on that quote/profile)

I was hopeful to have that profile set up as a price list in Adagio under that customer number with that price for that line item. I know I can extract the necessary items for importing into Adagio to identify it.

A lot of our work does require new and changing quotes, however we also have a large number of repetitive businesses like landfill and wastewater treatment facilities that use and have been using the same quote (profile) for years. I think if I can get the billing out of the LIMS with fixed pricing in Adagio, these customers would be more automatic with less manual checking.

I apologize for the wordiness.

Again, I appreciate any feedback anyone is willing to toss at me. I have been nothing but happy with the GL, AP, and AR modules that I have been using for years (I actually love the AR update) and if I can get this piece converted over, it would be tremendous monkey off of my back in regards to billing.

Thanks.

Once the quote has been finalized (approved), enter it as an "archive invoice" in Invoices. Only let accounting (or other authorized people) changed documents in the archive. Ahem the LMS says the testing is complete, move the archive document into the active batch, confirm the pricing details, print it and post it. For repetative work, you can copy rather than move the document.

That could work, but often the work received for analysis varies from the full quote. The quote will list line items for the entire project and the samples will trickle in over a period of time. So, any invoice can be just a piece of the quote, the full line listing of the full quote, or a single analsys on the quote. I was also going for as much automation as I can to refrain from having to proof each and every invoice each and every time.

In speaking with my IT group, we feel confident that upon completion of any analsys, the LIMS system can export the customer number, the quote/profile number with each analysis, the line item analyzed (test code), and the number of line items analyzed (how many). If I can just get the profile/quote to be a price list already inside Adagio, I am hoping the import would link up the correct customer and price list within that customer to reduce the review process and establish a better system. As you mentioned, I already feel confident in my ability to restrict modifications by users in Adagio since Adagio has such a nice layout of the "rights by user" section. So, that is given win there.

Perhaps this has gone beyond a forum discussion and for that I apologize. I started off with... "can I..?" But it has gotten a bit in depth now.

I have had some short discussions with Brian Stief and I can continue with him to see if we can work this out. I am hopeful.